Oral History
Narrator: Harue Mae Ninomiya
Interviewer: Stacy Lumbach
Date: August 15, 2000
Place: Portland, Oregon
Transcription: Caseman Thompson
Edited by Donna Sinclair
SL: This is Stacy Lumbach, and I will be interviewing Mae Ninomiya in her home on August 15th, 2000.
So to start out with, would you state your full name, date of birth, and place of birth.
MN: My name is Harue Mae Ninomiya. I was born in Portland, Oregon on March 22, 1919.
SL: We are going to start out with a little bit of your family’s history. Where was your family’s truck farm?
MN: First, I think we were up by N.E. 82nd , between Columbia Boulevard and Killingsworth. It was very small so my father moved down to Marine drive near 82nd Avenue. It was truck farming. My father grew green peas, tomatoes, and carrots. Because of the sandy soil, he was limited in growing produce.
SL: What did the farm look like?
MN: It was quite level in that area and was quite sandy. I cannot remember how many acres it was, although it also had no irrigation. My dad grew his produce in rows.
SL: What kind of challenges did your family face in setting up the farm?
MN: When we lived at the upper area between Columbia and Killingsworth, the farm was so small, it could not support our six family members. This was why we moved to the other property.
SL: Where did your father open his store at?
MN: My father had a chance to buy this fruit stand on North Lombard and Denver Avenue, so we moved in 1933.
SL: What did the store look like?
MN: The store was just a fruit stand. The front door was solid wood panels that we had to take apart every morning and replace every night. It was mostly produce that we sold, with very little other grocery staples. We did sell milk and bread. Eventually, we did sell peanut butter and mayonnaise in bulk, and some canned goods. At first, it was all produce, such as fruits and vegetables.
SL: Who were your clientele, who came into the store?
MN: People from around the area came because my father cleaned the vegetables so clean that it could be eaten right there. The green onions were all trimmed as well as the celery and lettuce. Nowadays, you can buy spinach that has dirt on it, but my father washed everything before the produce was put out for sale.
SL: Did he face any additional challenges at the store?
MN: Well, he tried to do enough business to feed all of us. My dad and mother could not speak much English and so I had to work after school. I went to Jefferson High School. I came home and worked until 9 o’clock. The people were very good to us, of course. They found that our produce was the best in the area. This was why we had quite a patronage. You could buy what were called “”Darrell Bags” of lettuce, celery, and produce for less than a dollar for the whole bag.
SL: At that time, when you were in high school and at the store, what were your plans for the future?
MN: Well I wanted to go to college, but my mother did not believe in girls going to college. I did take college preparatory courses at Jefferson High School, and after I graduated in 1937 I went to Multnomah Junior College for secretarial science. I got my associates degree there in 1939.
SL: How did the first news of the war effect your family when it started?
MN: In 1941, we were leasing the food stand and we decided that we would like to build a house because we were living in back of the food stand in very small quarters. On November 11th, 1941, my brother was able to get a loan to build a house so, Mr. Ted Aslar began to build the house when war was declared. We proceeded because we had the loan and the foundation was up. It was just in the beginning stages.
On February 19, 1942, president Roosevelt declared 9066. That was the time that we knew we could no longer stay in our home or do business. At that time, my brother and I were of legal age and were citizens. We did not think that we would be taken. We just thought that our two younger brothers, who were minors, and our father and mother, who were aliens, would be sent some place. My brother and I thought that we could continue to have the store and operate it but that was not the case. We all had to evacuate. As time went on, things got more heated in the war, and so we had to leave. I was very bitter about the evacuation.
SL: Where did you first hear about the plans for the relocations?
MN: The people in charge of the relocations decided to place us all in relocation centers. Prior to this, though, they wanted to relocate people within a certain amount of time in temporary centers. Temporary quarters were placed at the Pacific International Exposition Center. That is where we went from May the 3rd to September 12th of 1942.
SL: How did your family prepare for the move?
MN: Since we had lived just 2 months in our newly built house, we did not have any furniture, so we stored our personal belongings in the basement. We had to sell all of the canned goods in the store because we did not know if we would be able to lease it because nothing was said. The canned goods and other items were sold for 10 cents on the dollar. With that cash, we wanted to buy the property. The landlord was around 72 years old, and had refused to sell the land all of the years they had tried to buy the property prior, but sold them the property.
Around April 20th, my brother had to go to the Federal Reserve downtown and was quizzed for around 3 or 4 hours on why he wanted to buy the property. He said that he felt that he had done nothing wrong and that he was being interrogated about every detail of his life. He was born in 1920, so he was only 22 years old. Of course, he didn’t have much to say but told them that the family’s objective was to return because their house was there. He went through many stressful and frustrating moments there.
SL: Was it more difficult with the federal authorities or with the bank officials, or both?
MN: It was not through the bank, but with federal authorities. You see, when war was declared Japanese men who belonged to different organizations locally, such as the Japanese Chamber of Commerce, were all taken in as possible spies. The Federal reserve people did not suspect my brother but they couldn’t understand our reasoning for buying the property. We just felt that we had the money. Some people bought U.S. savings bonds but our objective was to buy the property so that we would have some place to come back to since we already had the home.
SL: What items was your family able to keep within the home?
MN: We did not sell anything. I know a lot of people sold because they had no place to take or store their belongings. I guess the federal government said people could store things, but we didn’t have any furniture. So, it was just our kitchen utensils, bedding and such. We were only allowed to carry two suitcases or bags, so we only took our personal clothing or bedding. The rest of the stuff was barricaded in a potion of our basement.
SL: Would you describe the moving day for your family?
MN: We were supposed to report May 3rd. Since we lived in North Portland, it was only a 15-minute ride to the Livestock Exposition Center where we were supposed to report. Mr. Asbar, who built our home, took our belongings and us in his car. He drove our family of six to the marine drive exposition center where we were supposed to report.
SL: What did you do in the days to follow?
MN: Well, the days following, we were assigned to quarters that were larger than some. Quarters were of different sizes according to the family. We got six cots. A mattress was heavy burlap-like, which we stuffed with straw. Later on, we were able to get regular mattresses, but at that time that was all that we got. So, we got ourselves situated. I had never seen so many Japanese people all at one time.
Our quarters were above the manure of the livestock, so you can imagine the smell. You can imagine the smell. That’s where we lived. There were ply-board walls about 10-foot high, and we could see the ceiling of the exposition center. The lights were way above and were not for reading purposes and we had no extra lights. There were no extra electrical outlets. So, we lived with all of those extra people and everything was communal. We went to the mess hall to eat and our bathroom facilities were about a block away in one area. Our mother washed the clothes for us and she had to go to a certain area. All of our toilets and showers were all open, they did not have time to make them for privacy. I think there were about 12 toilets and about that many showers. Some of us didn’t want to be seen by curious gawkers so we would shower at night. We existed more or less, because there was nothing else to do but live day by day.
I didn’t get a job because there was nothing I really wanted to do. Since I had 2 years of college and they were going to have a summer school, I qualified to become a teacher. So that is what I did. I think it was about June that they opened the schools, so I taught 3rd graders. Our desks and chairs were the bleachers in the arena. Every grade level had a certain area of the arena. I think there were 23 to 25 third-graders and it was challenging to teach them. They gave us books, pencils and supplies provided by the Portland School District. All I taught was reading, math, and spelling. We didn’t go into any other subjects. It was really challenging.
Those kids were so anxious to learn that I very seldom had any discipline problems even though they were squatting on the seats and using the bleachers for a table. I was very surprised at how those kids persevered. Our school began at 9 o’clock and ended about 11:30. It was two and one half-hours, and we did not have any school in the afternoon. It was something that I can never forget because those kids were so anxious to learn and do the assignments. There was no homework because it was not required.
SL: Did other people have other jobs there?
MN: Oh yes, the mess hall where the food was prepared had bus boys and waitresses and such. I think that over 300 people were employed. They had a maintenance crew, carpenters, and they had everything because we were all under one roof. It was about 3600 at the highest time of population and so you can imagine how we had to live under those situations.
My dad and mother could not find a job because there just were not that many jobs around. There were older people, we called them “Isei��s”, that were not working. There were not very many. There were athletic activities for every person who wanted to play games or take part in basketball, baseball, or tennis. Every kind of sports was done there. The Isei men were playing Japanese games called goal and there was horseshoe tossing.
SL: What kind of news did you hear at the assembly center?
MN: We had a newspaper that was published Tuesdays and Fridays, so we were able to get news about the center. None of the outside news was printed in this bi-weekly paper, but outside newspapers could be bought at the canteen. No radios were allowed. They were considered contraband.
SL: At that time, did you know how long you were going to be there?
MN: No, everything was uncertain. We did not know what the future was going to be. We knew that these were temporary quarters, so we knew that they were going to take us someplace else where it would be permanent. All we knew was that we would be held for the entire duration of the war, which was the reason we were evacuated. When war ceased, then we knew we would be able to return.
SL: When did you find out about going to Minodoka?
MN: It was around August, the first or middle part, that we found out that we would all be shipped to Minodoka, which is Hunt Idaho. It is in southwest Idaho. Many people had left for Tule Lake, where they were recruiting professional people for different jobs. The other area was Hart Mountain in Wyoming. From the exposition center, some of us went to Hart Mountain and the rest went to Minodoka. Tule Lake was down south on the California-Oregon border. That was where a few, 300-400, people went.
SL: What was the journey there like?
MN: We had to be boarded onto trains, and the shades to the windows had to be down while we traveled so no one could see us. I can’t remember how long the journey was but we were in those cars for quite a long time. We were fed in there and it was by families. I really can’t remember that time, I don’t know why. I know it was long and tiresome.
SL: What type of trains were they? Were they passenger trains?
MN: Oh yes, they were passenger trains. They were not the best and I don’t know where they got them, but it wasn’t very comfortable and only accommodated for the purposes.
[End Side A, Tape 1 of 2, Begin Side B]SL: Can you describe your first impressions of being at Minodoka?
MN: Nothing was growing, it was sage country. The wind and sand blew during storms. We were bussed into Minodaka from the train and we saw Army barracks, row after row of them. That was going to be our home. We saw the familiar guard tower with men holding guns at their side. The assembly-expo center also had guards and towers. We knew we would be in the same situation. It was very desolate. I thought, “Oh God, I’m not going to stay here very long.” So, I went to the employment department and tried to find a job to go out. As long as you had a job, through an approved employer, you were able to leave the camp.
We were all approved to leave and so I left on December 7th or 8th. It was getting cold and we had just one pot-bellied stove in our family’s quarters. Our quarters were the largest since there was six of us. Within the quarters we just had our six cots and the stove. There were no chairs or table and I could not see myself living in those conditions. So, I left and found a governess job to twin girls down in Preston Idaho, which is by the Utah borderline. I left in December because I didn’t even try to find a job at the camp. My friends said they were going to find jobs at the relocation center. At this time I was going around with Nug who I married in December the following year. So, I can’t tell you the story about Minodoka, because I had left and I don’t know much about camp life there. But, I know that each of the six or nine barracks had a central mess hall, with a dining and cooking area. The bathrooms were also situated there. My friends were scattered here and there. The first people who went to Minodoka were from the Seattle area so they occupied the camp first. The Portland section began around block 28 or 30. I think we were in block 32.
SL: From what I understand, you and Nug had ended up moving out into separate cities and working. How were you able to communicate?
MN: He was at Tule Lake, and then he couldn’t stand Tule Lake either so he got a sugar beet job with his friend Tajata. They didn’t know what sugar beets were and they figured that they would be small. When they got out there, the beets were heavy and they were about 6 or 8 inches around. They looked liked the red beets we were used to, but they were much larger. They had to take the tops off with a knife that was not like a regular kitchen knife. They had a little curl on the blade which was used to cut the leaves off of the beet. It was a very strenuous and physical job. The two fellows thought, “It is a small farm, and we can handle it.” I think it was about seven or eight acres, which wasn’t that small. He then left Tule lake much earlier than I left Minodoka.
He got himself into Nisa Oregon in a farm labor camp and there they had a mess hall, so he didn’t have to do any cooking. Although, it was physical labor. And then he found a cottage at the Caldwell farm labor camp. These were little cottages that had two bedrooms and a kitchen, living room and a bathroom. So, he applied for one of these cottages and he was able to get it because he said he was getting married.
Then, the summer of 1943, my dad and mother were living in Minodoka, and they came out. My brothers were there quartered in this small cottage. I quit my job in Preston, Idaho in April or May and went to Caldwell. My dad and mother came from camp. My mother did the cooking while all of us went out to work. My brothers were in Pocatello Idaho working on farms and then my older brother got a job working in a grocery store in a small town in Maryland. So, it was only the four or five of us there. But, my two younger brothers went into service that winter in 1943.
Nug and I got married in Hunt, Idaho, because his folks were there. My folks, after farm work, decided to go back into camp because it was so cold in Caldwell. They just thought that they would be isolated from their friends so they went back into the camp. So, Nug and I were married and stayed in Caldwell. We were there until we were able to return back to Portland. In the meantime, my son was born in June of 1945. Nug was called into military service on May 1st. Since he was married and V.E. day was declared, he was discharged. He said he never even wore his uniform. He was to report May 1st or 2nd and he was released around May 15th. So, he came back and then our son was born June the 23rd.
SL: Were you making any future plans at the time you got married?
MN: Well, no. We knew we were coming back and we knew we had the store. Since my two younger brothers were in the service, they would return. My older brother was now in Baltimore, Maryland managing a super market, so we knew he couldn’t just couldn’t come back. So Nug and I came back to Portland. We opened the store in August after coming back to Portland. My dad, mother, our son Rodney, Nug and I came back. We had a small 4-door car stored in Portland, which Mr. Asbar brought to Idaho for us. So, we had transportation to come back.
SL: Where very many of the [Japanese] men going into the service? Did they choose them?
MN: Yes, some were drafted and others volunteered. I’m not sure whether my two brothers volunteered or not but Nug was drafted.
SL: What were your feelings when Nug was called into active duty?
MN: Since I was pregnant and expecting in June, I just didn’t want him to go, but there was nothing I could do. When I got word that he was being discharged, I was elated. I thought then that he would be with me when our son was born. While I was pregnant, I continued to work on the farm. I would remove the tops off of dried onions. Nug was working for a farmer doing odd jobs. He was paid day labor. Prior to that we both performed odd farm work.
SL: On your way back to Portland, what kind of expectations did you have for your return?
MN: We knew we had to open the store because we had given the people we had leased to a date of September 1st to give up the store. Also, we had leased the store. So, our plans were to just open up the store and carry on until my brothers were able to return.
SL: What was it like opening up the store?
MN: That was a nightmare because we had seen the people who had been our customers and we did not know how they would react to our opening. While we were stocking the store, some people said that they might not patronize the store because many were anti-Japanese. So, we faced that and the job of stocking the store.
We went to Franz and Wonder bakery to [ask them to] deliver the bread and they were very reluctant. They said they did not know if they could serve us or not. They said that since we were long-time customers before the war, that they would try their best. For our milk, we went to Sunshine Dairy, who was very cooperative. They said that they did not care what people thought and that they would serve us. So, we had the milk and the bread but we didn’t know about our grocery line. We went to several suppliers and finally Hudson-Duncan said that they would bring the merchandise to us. I had to go and place the order, while they delivered it to us. But, there were some hard to get items, so I went to a Fred Meyers store on Chatauqua and Willis Boulevard.
There, they were reluctant to sell to me because I was buying by the cases and I was paying the retail price for them. The manager was real good. I went on the pretense that I was cooking for a work camp in Linnton. I didn’t tell them that I had a store that I was stocking. I must have been shopping there for about 2 months. I would get all of the canned goods from there that I could not get from Hudson and Duncan about once or sometimes twice a week. One day, I went there and the Fred Meyer��s manager said that he was sorry and that he could not sell me any of the grocery line products. He didn’t tell me why, he just said, “Sorry I can’t sell [to] you.” So, I was very disturbed but eventually, Hudson and Duncan sold me items we needed such as fruits, and tuna fish. At that time, you had to have stamps to buy sugar and some of those things. Those were the situations I had to face.
In the meantime, one of my brothers came back in his uniform. Customers would ask, “Where is the rest of your family?” Because they knew that I had more brothers. Our sales really boosted from the fact that my brother was in the service and that he had returned.
The way the food stand was located, it was situated in a triangle like area. Right across the street was a beer tavern and a service station. People would walk across from there instead of coming right up to the store. I felt that I was like an animal in a zoo and that people were staring at us from a distance. Some of the people came at night because they did not want their friends and neighbors to know that they were shopping with us. So at first, I did not know if we would be able to make a living from being in the business. I know that some of the people were concerned about our products going bad, and they would return it so we would try to get them fresh dairy products.
It was a trying time. My dad had faith. He said, “We just have to wait for time. There is a time for everything,” and that our customers would come back. It was when my brothers came that we began to do business that was profitable enough to make a living. So, even to this day, it has had a dramatic change in people’s attitudes because they were heroic and had been applauded for their distinguished service. My brother was in the 442nd and the 100th battalion, which are the famous units of service. I really think that at first I thought, “Why did we return? Why do we have to face discrimination?”
Through it all, my father was the one that said things would get better. Of course he had faced other obstacles in his lifetime. He came here at 18 years old and worked in railroads and such. He has told me the story that he was working the railroad in Eastern Oregon around Bend or Baker. He said their food was so poor that he didn’t have much nourishment so at night he would try to read a letter that he had gotten from my mother (He married my mother later by proxy). He said that his eyes were so weak that he could not read the letter. That’s the kind of living he had gone through, so he said, “This is nothing compared to what I have gone through.” Even though I became discouraged, he was never discouraged.
He said, “We are living in America where there are still opportunities.” And I think that to this day that my father was the stability that carried us through. Since I was 25 or 26 years old, I had never went through all of the disappointments and such that he had to go through. So, I didn’t know what it was all about until I had faced it. Evacuation was one thing but trying to do business was another obstacle that I had to face.
SL: What things did work in your favor? You mentioned that it helped having your brothers come home?
MN: Well, my brothers coming home really brought the business back. In the meantime, my husband did not want to work in the store with me so he bought a place out in Vanport. It was in the area of Delta Park. He leased a restaurant on North Cottonwood in the Black area. He had a Black woman who was the cook. He did not have too much business there, but he had enough. He sold a lot of beer at the restaurant and he had 5 pinball machines. His Japanese friends couldn’t find a job and they were therr from the time he opened until the time he closed working on the pinball machines. The pinball company made it so that my husband��s profit was not much but the players made money. He said that some of them made around $75.00 a day. That was more than they could get working, you know. The Vanport flood took away his business, but until then he was there.
[End Side B, Tape 1 of 2, Begin Side A, Tape 2 of 2]MN: . . . There were some Black people there and they couldn’t operate, so when he was helping me in the store, Gus Finnella, a wine salesman, said to Nug, “There is a place for sale in Vanport. Why don’t you go there and run the business? It’s not a grocery business, but a restaurant.” He says, “I think you could do something there.” So, he went down and looked at it. It was very appealing to him, so he ended up taking over. I’m not sure how long he operated it, but the flood is what took his business away. He was doing very well there because the Black people liked him and they would buy beer. I can remember because that was going to be a big weekend because it was warm. So, he had beer cases stacked clear up to the ceiling.
The sheriffs had warned him because they use to come in and patronize him. They said, “Nug, we are going to have a flood. The water is so high that the dike will eventually leak some place, and if it does its going to swallow this whole Vanport area.” So, Nug had told the beer drivers and the pinball machine company to make plans to come and pick up their things and the beer. He had warned them, but did not exactly know when. When he went to work that morning, the Sheriff came around and said, “There’s a spot that is very weak and we can just see the dike giving in. It wont be long.” The beer and pinball companies couldn’t come in because people were trying to get out of Vanport and onlookers were trying to get in.
People in Vanport knew what was going to happen, and so they were trying to get their belongings and get out. It was just a mess. He was able to pick up his two cash registers before the waters came, and get his car, which he had just purchased two or three months before. When he got home, he couldn’t imagine how he got those two cash registers in the trunk of his car. Six or eight people helped pull his car on top of the dike, otherwise he would have lost it.
SL: Was he able to get anything else out?
MN: Oh no, all he got out was the cash registers. All the beer and pinball machines just stood there. After 3 or 4 days the water did recede, but it was still in there. He was able to get into the pinball machines and get the money out of there. After that, he went to work for Ford Motor Company selling cars. Oh, before then though, he had bought a beer tavern down in Old Town on 3rd Avenue. It was in the Black area. The area became too dangerous so he closed up the tavern. It was after that that he became a salesman selling Ford cars. He did that for 30 years until he got glaucoma and he couldn’t see, so he had to retire.
SL: And you continued to work at your store?
MN: Yes. In the meantime, my brother, who was managing in Maryland came back and so we built a store in 1954. It was built as a supermarket. I worked there all of that time, but also I began to sell mutual funds. Rodney was about five when I began and I quit when my brother passed away. At that time I went back into the store. We had a small variety store right next to the grocery store that I managed.
In 1968, I had a hysterectomy and I was beginning to get Bursitis. I then told my dad that I just couldn’t work in the store anymore. So I began to do volunteer work in the school district and at Emmanuel hospital. Nug says to me, “If you are doing all of this volunteer work, why don’t you find some kind of a job?” So I applied for a teacher aide at the public school and I worked as an aide at James John School.
From there, in 1974, I went to Madison High School as a bookkeeper for the student body and the school. At that time, every student had to buy books and such. So, I helped collect 20 to 30 thousand dollars a day from the sales of the books to the students. Then, I retired from there in 1984.
In the summer of 1985, I read in the newspaper about a lady who was in her 80’s receiving a degree from P.S.U. So I felt, if she can do it, I can do it. I enrolled in P.S.U. I had gone to Multnomah Junior College for secretarial science, but I couldn’t pursue that because there were too many prerequisites. So, the counselor suggested that I get a degree in general studies. In 1989, fifty years after I had gotten my associates degree, I got my bachelors degree in General Studies from P.S.U. I was 70 years old and everybody said I was crazy. They said, “What are you doing that for?”
I said, “Well, that was one of my ambitions.” .It was very, very difficult. There were times when I could just sit down and cry. You just don’t have memory. You read what you are supposed to read but you can’t retain that. When it came to exam time, ohh God!!.. I nearly sat down to cry because I couldn’t figure out. I could see the word on the page, but it just didn’t come out to me. It was quite a struggle, but I did get my degree. I really feel good about having it. I’ve got more confidence and it gave me a feeling that I can do what others are doing. If I were to do it again, I would have liked to have done it earlier, to get my degree. But I had to raise my family of four kids and send them off to college. My education was not the priority for me at that time. Getting my degree was one of my ambitions. When I retired, I said I wanted to learn how to play bridge and golf. But, things have happened and I haven’t been able to do any of that. Everybody tells me that golf takes 4 hours and I say I don’t have time. I’ve got more thing to do..so maybe on of these days!
SL: So what are you doing now?
MN: Well, my table is a mess, as you can see, from an ongoing project of making these cranes for the Japanese garden gift shop. I don’t have it complete but I string five of these and then they sell them there. That’s been my ongoing project. I also volunteer at the gift shop.
My priority now is to write a book about the 132 days we lived at the assembly center. The title of my book is “U.S. Citizens: Behind Barbed Wire.” We just had our reunion and my plan was to have the book completed and ready for sale by then but I am far away from it. Now that I’m finished with all of that junky stuff, I’ve got about five chapters written. Do you know Adair Law, at the Oregon Historical Center?
SL: No.
MN: Well, she is going to help me by editing and locating a publisher. They plan on funding the entire project. That was my concern, spending a lot of my own money to have the book published when I was going to give the sales profit to the Japanese American Museum. It is located on NW 2nd between 3rd and Couch. In fact, because of the reunion, we have an exhibit about old Japan town before the war in 1930’s, prior to the war. There were businesses all through NW from up to about 6th Avenue. There were hotels, restaurants, barbers shops, etc. They have pictures of those.
SL: What things do you remember about Japan town?
MN: Well, I don’t remember too much because I lived out here. There must have been about 1000 people who lived in that area there who worked and often lived in back of their businesses. Those people lived with all Japanese Americans, there were no Caucasians around there. Some Chinese though. I did not have very many except in school.
SL: Was there anything you wanted to add, about the assembly center or anything?
MN: Well I wanted to say that now, every 3 months, the Jefferson graduates of 1937, ��38, and ��39 have lunch at the Double Tree Coffee Shop. We have about 20 to 25 people. I also meet with the classified people that worked at Madison High School. We meet once a month for lunch.
[End of Interview]