Narrator: Jean Moszeter
Interviewer: Kathy Tucker
Date: April 12, 2000
Place: Camas, Washington
When I married in 1948, my husband worked for Utah-Idaho Sugar Company. The company was moving to Moses Lake, Washington. We had a choice of moving to Moses Lake or moving to Camas and since my husband had relatives living in Camas, we decided to move to Camas. We moved here in 1959, as we were anxious to get located before the children started to school. They went all through school in Camas. In fact, this school is where my daughter started.
KT: It was what school?
JM: Oak Park School.
KT: Elementary?
JM: Elementary. We thought she’d go to kindergarten, but when she took the tests, they put her in the first grade and she was just off to the races. She enjoyed it a lot. So I started to work right away. My main concern was that I didn’t want to take very responsible jobs until my kids were well into school, because I wanted to be involved in what they were doing.
KT: How many kids?
JM: Two. A girl and a boy. They both live in the Vancouver area. My daughter lives in Orchards, right off Vancouver, and my son lives in Vancouver. So theC well I showed you where I live. It’s an open area and that’s how I became interested in looking after open land [laughs], because there was always someone trying to get that property. One time it was a proposed trailer park.
KT: You’re talking about the piece of property that’s near your house?
JM: Yes, it parallels Southeast Yale Street.
KT: And it borders something you call the ponds?
JM: Yes, the ponds are in the back part. It’s where they have taken gravel; there is a crusher there. They dig the rock out of the ground and then the water flows in from the Washougal River. The area became known as the ponds. It’s a tragedy that several children have drowned there since we’ve been here. It has been posted now, for about five years.
KT: And just for clarification, this is on the Washougal River near the Burlington Northern?
JM: Yes, between the railroad tracks and the Washougal River. Because, every time I turned around, someone would come in and try to develop the open land. We didn’t want certain things going in there, because we looked at the area all of the time. So the neighborhood, we are known as the Goot Park Neighborhood, became involved in trying toC would always rescue it [laughs]. Every time something came up, we would march on city hall, so to speak. We would get a large group together and go to a council meeting. It’s always easier to say “no” to one person than it is to a group. We became bigger with the process and learned how to protect that property. So far, we have been very fortunate to do that.
KT: So, you weren’t an activist before 1987 basically?
JM: Oh yes, always more or less, about certain things. Things that happened at school. I don’t think there’s anyone who isn’t [laughs], if something happens that you are disturbed about. We got our neighborhood together and got our streets fixed. We had to write letters, get petitions to assist in getting a grant so that we could get curbs and decent streets. This was done about eight years ago. Because our immediate area was a development, we had good streets and curbs, but the area leading into our development was a disaster. There were no curbs; it was a very narrow street with two-way traffic. There were weeds all along the street. This was the area we banded together to clean up and we were successful.
I guess in a way I have been an activist all of my life.
KT: Yes, even before coming intoC
JM: Yes, certain things come up and if you take exception to them, I think you have to do something. I think everybody feels that way. I hope everybody feels that way.
KT: Well, it seems like a lot of people don’t doC
JM: Well, I think they are afraid to. For one thing, you’re always intimidated. I think the main reason is the cityC any government agency that you deal with has attorneys and if you start arguing with them, sooner or later you’re gonna have to get an attorney. Most of us can’t afford to just throw money away on an attorney for something you’re opposed to. It has to be something that affects you personally, I guess, before you’re willing to pay an attorney. It wasn’t that I wasn’t willing; it was that I simply couldn’t afford to hire an attorney to fight these battles. Especially after retiringC you can afford more when you are working but not after retirement [laughs].
KT: I think you told me one time you worked for the schools.
JM: Yes, I did.
KT: Washougal?
JM: Washougal, and I served on the Camas School Board.
KT: What did you do for the Washougal School?
JM: When I was hired, I was hired as the office manager and did clerical work. Then later, I had to take on more and more and more. It seemed like it just kept multiplying. I was doing all of the bookkeeping, accounting and so on. Prepared the budget and year-end reports. All of the reports that went to the county, state and federal governments. I worked there for 12-13 years and retired in December of 1982. I had a chance to retire with the same benefits that I would receive if I waited until I was 65, so I took it. My husband was ill; he had cancer, thenC
KT: How much time a week do you, would you say, devote to your community activities?
JM: A week? Well, some weeks probablyC oh, I imagine six to eight hours. Then other weeks maybe it is even more. It just depends on what we are doing. Sometimes you spend a whole day on something, like today [laughs] C we’re spending a whole day today. I spent the whole day on Monday and thenC let’s seeC yesterday, I just made telephone calls so that was very minimal, but I’d say probably at least ten hours a week on the average.
KT: Is the community very active?
JM: Oh, I think so. I think we have a very active community. The senior citizens are very active. We have a couple of people scheduling trips. We work with the community center here, too. We have a trip coming up in May with them. The seniors are very active. Our Board meeting is the first Monday of the month, blood pressure clinic the first Wednesday of the month, Potlucks on the second Friday of the month, Casino trips the second Monday, and Bingo on the third Friday of the month. The Parkersville Park Committee meets one or more times per month. The neighborhoods usually meet once a month. The UCAN, or United Camas Association of Neighborhoods, meets once a month. There are other activities related to that. We are doing a white paper, I told you about that and I sent you a copy. We have meetings once a month or more. The meeting itself takes about two hours, but preparation takes much longer. Phone calls and actual visits to people involved, that sort of thing, takes a lot of time.
KT: Are there younger people involved?
JM: Not at this point.
KT: Why do you think that is?
JM: Well, I think the main reason is that they are too busy making a living. Now days, most couples are both working and it is so difficult for them to have time to go to meetings. I think it is a wonderful thing that older people are involved, because they do have time. Young people work long hours and by the time they get home, they are tired. If they have children, they must go to the school functions. I know from experience. I was a Brownie Leader, Girl Scout Leader [laughs], helped coach the Hi-Q Team. My son played football and wrestled so we attended all of his games and matches.
KT: What’s Hi-Q?
JM: It was a group of kids that were in the advanced English class. They competed nationwide. It was like the quiz kids show. Our daughter was on the team for two years. Most of the work fell to their teacher, but once in awhile we would visit libraries, things of that nature. I enjoyed that immensely, because it was a really talented group of kids, and the questions that they were asked during competition were difficult and could be on any subject.
KT: Has the townC it has become a bit more diversified over the years.
JM: Oh yes, it has. When we first became involved in the lake business, it would come back to us that we were opposed to new people coming into the area. We were not opposed to new people. We weren’t crazy about the developments, but for the most part, liked the people. Bob Howe is one example of someone new to our area that is involved in local activities and lives in Lakeview.
KT: Lakeview is what?
JM: The area overlooking Lacamas Lake that was part of the additionC development.
KT: That was part of the stuff that you guys were trying to [indistinguishable].
JM: Right. We were coming from an environmental position and we didn’t hate the people. We really added some wonderful people. Gwen Hahn, who was the first homeowner in the development, was a great addition to the community. I just can’t say enough good things about her. We helped her become elected to the city council. Although I didn’t always agree with her, I could see the logic of her position. I feel that during the time Gwen Hahn and Rosalie MacRae served on the city council was one of the best councils we have had, because they got to the root of some of the problems that we had had for years.
KT: So, basically, the new development brought in new people, but these new people have been involved, too.
JM: Yes. They are getting more involved and that’s what IC Gwen Hahn is not on the city council, but she is still in the community and I am sure if something comes up that she disagrees with, she will be right there making waves for change. Norm Haller, who lives in the development, is also active on various committees. We have had some, three or four people, from the development who have been rabble-rousers; however, most of them have moved from the area.
KT: [indistinguishable] the people out where?
JM: Out at the lake. That’s why I say we got a bad nameC that we were just tree huggers, things like that.
KT: So when you say people were rabble-rousers, they were people whoC
JM: They had moved out there, too, they bought houses out there.
KT: Why were they rabble-rousers?
JM: Well, they were the ones that felt we wereC there were articles in the paper calling us tree huggers. One letter to the editor said we were jealous, because we lived in older homes and they had new homes, new cars and everything. Then, of course, we had the opposite opinions of Gwen Hahn and Norm Haller, who became a part of our community.
KT: So tree hugger is an epithet in Camas [laughs].
JM: I guess, but we didn’t feel like tree huggers. We felt like it was an environmentalC it changed our environment completely. From the standpoint of the trees disappearing, it was a disaster. The impact on our roads. We were a little town where you could drive out on the road and go. Now, you wait and wait. It’s affected our schools. We have had to build new schools, new water lines. The developers feel like we should be happy that our property values have gone up. Well, that isn’t especially a good thing unless you are going to sell your home. Your taxes go up, groceries go up. One time a lady I used to buy soup for bought some for herself and called, said, “I had no idea that soup was $1.39 a can.” She said, “That’s outrageous. Isn’t there something that can be done?” I said that I didn’t know, but would try and find out. I talked to the manager at Safeway, and he told me that their prices are based on a formula whereby all of the property values, incomes, and cost of the houses are taken into consideration, and their prices are based accordingly. Of course, that area is a very affluent area.
KT: The Lacamas Lake area?
JM: Yes, and on up the hill. So, of course, when those incomes are added into a formula, it allows for higher grocery prices. The Safeway store manager said he wished it didn’t happen that way, but that’s the way it is.
KT: Is Prune Hill the other?
JM: Well, Prune Hill is older. The eastern side of Prune Hill is an old area, but up where the outdoor theater used to be, about to the top of the hill, all of that is new. It goes west then, almost all the way to Vancouver, including Parker Estates. The city did start getting some new industries, which has helped on the tax base. However, we had to pay for extensions to sewer and water lines. Again, this increases our land values and our taxes rise. The city has finally levied impact fees which are reasonable, which they had refused to do for a long time.
KT: What are impact fees?
JM: This is a fee that is added to the cost of any new house that is built in the city. For example, say there is a $5,000.00 fee for each new house. This is to pay for the amenities already in place that the taxpayers have either already paid or are currently paying for. I don’t know what the fees are at the moment, but I know they are working to bring them more in line.
KT: Tell me how much the city has changed since the time you came.
JM: Well, I guess it’s no longer a little town where you can just go down and buy what you want. We used to have a paint store, a couple of children’s clothing stores, a local hardware store, lumber market and you got to know the proprietors. Now there are several vacant buildings downtown. There is a local group of businessmen and professionals who are working hard to acquire new businesses. There are a number of restaurants. I guess the changes have been evolutionary, as people tend to do most of their shopping at malls. And, sorry to say, we have to go all the way to Vancouver to shop the malls.
KT: Why do you think that is, that those businesses left or were forced to leave?
JM: I don’t know. Maybe they weren’t making enough money. We had a record shop at one time. We have had music stores from time to time. Westlie Ford Motor Company moved to the Port area where there used to be a huge marina. It’s a new generation and a new method of doing business. For instance, Hi School Pharmacy isn’t just a pharmacy; they sell all manner of thingsC flowers, medical needs, groceries, electronic equipment, etc. People just seem to enjoy shopping at malls. I guess it’s just evolutionary; I don’t know what else to say.
KT: How do you feel about the way Camas has grown?
JM: I hate the fact that we are losing open spaces. That’s what bothers me most. I think because I am a history buff and read history constantly, and from my travels, the areas that have the most social problems are the areas that are most congested. The more people you stuff into an area, the more problems you are going to have. I don’t know what causes this; perhaps tension, but I do know that it is difficult for people to live too close together. Another thing that is happening is that homes are being squeezed into the older areas in the city. The transportation corridors are inadequate. Apparently this is a state mandated and we have no voice in the matter. There have been several multi-unit apartment houses that have been built in our neighborhood and the garbage has grown significantly.
KT: When you say “this area,” do you mean the open space near your home?
JM: Yes, the units along the Evergreen Highway have two housing facilities. The people who live there get out and walk, and when they look across the river and see the open space, they walk over there. When they walk, they drop their cans, sacks, whatever and just leave it. I pick up garbage in my neighborhood at least three days a week in order to keep it clean. Also, the apartments create a lot of congestion on our streets.
KT: To the north of the open space?
JM: Yes. I am not blaming the apartments for all of the waste, but they are just more contributors to the garbage problem.
KT: Is there poverty in Camas?
JM: I know there are some poor people. I know there are a lot of poor people. I don’t know what we can do about that. I wish there was something we could do about it. I don’t know how you would go about it.
I guess you would have to go back to when they began their lives and learnC well, I shouldn’t get into that, I don’t really know. I do know we have some poor people and that is why we are trying to have some activities for the senior citizens, to get people who cannot afford to do some of the things, to get them involved so they can participate. We can find a way to assist them.
KT: What kinds of things are you talking about?
JM: Trips, to go on trips.
KT: Senior citizens?
JM: Yes, so they can get out of their houses and do a few things. I think it’s important for seniors, and I think it’s important for them not to lose communication with other seniors, other people. I think most older people like to be independent; they want to pay their own way. They don’t like to rely on other people. I think that is the hardest part. They wouldn’t tell you if they did need help.
KT: Has the orientation towards the mill changed over the years?
JM: I don’t think so, not a lot. The mill has certainly downsized as far as the number of people that are employed there. I think that it was done in a way that hasn’t affected Camas that much. There have been new industries come into the area and in the Port area in Washougal. The city has been doing a lot of work in attracting new industries. I felt the Port should have been involved in that acquisition, but the city has done an excellent job.
I think Fort James-Crown Zellerbach has been a wonderful benefactor for Camas. It has affected all of our lives. In the past, most of the people in Camas worked at the mill. We were involved with each other; there again, it’s going back to a small town atmosphere. Now, so many people work at the mill and live somewhere else. They drive to work so do not take part in the local community. As far as attitude about the mill, I don’t think that has changed. I think most everyone looks on the mill as a good grandfather [laughs]. The mill has done a lot of good things for our community, land for schools, land for parksC Falling Leaf Park is an example. Also scholarships.
KT: What about pollution in the mill?
JM: Well, they have done a lot of work on that. When we visited Camas before we moved here and right after we moved here, we noticed the smell. The attitude was, “Well, if that’s the smell of money.” Because, as long as the mill was working and paying salaries and taxes, it is a good thing for Camas. There would have been no town without the mill. They have done a great job in cleaning up the water and air pollution. They have also given a good scholarship to college-bound students. They also provide many summer jobs for college students.
KT: So, effluents from the mill into the water. Has that ever been an issue for activists in town?
JM: Well, there has never been an active group that I know of, but there has always been a push to clean it up. I feel that the mill did that on their own. I think they saw the handwriting on the wall and they got busy and cleaned up their act. They have always worked to clean up the slough, the odor and the effluent, but they have done it on their own. When I was on the Port Commission, we helped with a bond issue to assist in their big renovation project, because we felt it was best for everyone, certainly the community, because it was then the largest payroll in town. I guess if you closed down the mill, many people would lose their livelihood, so it becomes a question of cooperation. You’ve got to give a little and take a little, and just massage it to where you can live with it. The clean up, I believe, was done primarily on their own initiative. They saw the handwriting on the wall and got the horse before the cart.
KT: Have you ever worked there yourself?
JM: No. Well, I worked there when we first came to Camas, but not for very long. It was a very different atmosphere for me. I wasn’t used to working as a–I guess I liked to be more independent. I went to work in the office, but I didn’t care for it. I left to work in a one-person office [laughs]. I liked that better. I guess it was just the numbers of people. I had never worked that way. It was such a different environment, so I went to a different company and I liked it a lot better.
KT: I want to ask another question that’s less related to the activism and more about Camas and Washougal. How does the Columbia River affect the identity of these communities?
JM: Well, of course the Columbia River is the reason for us being here [laughs]. It’s the first settlement right over there [indicating the Port park]. Have you seen the park?
KT: No, but I know about it.
JM: Okay. If you could stop by and take a look. That’s where the first white settlers landed. There was a little store there with a small settlement.
KT: I read about that.
JM: Yes, and they traded with the Indians. It’s also one of the stops made by Lewis and Clark. Across the river is where they spent the winter. Now they are going to have a big celebration to commemorate the expedition, because it’s one of their anniversaries. So, it’s played a big part, because food and supplies came in by water, as well as shipping trade goods to market. Of course, the Indians were here and they could trade with them as well.
KT: What about the time you have lived here? Have you felt that there was any kind of orientation towards the river or not?
JM: More of a sports nature than anything else, I think. The economics of the river traffic up and down. Of course, Camas has never had facilities to accommodate river traffic, other than in a recreational capacity. The Fort James mill has facilities for shipping and receiving from the river. They can bring logs and barges in and also ship products by water.
Years ago, two ladies from Camas and Washougal, Diane Kaiser and Dorothy Pointek, in conjunction with Roberta Tidland, oh, it’s been thirty years ago now, saw the value tourism could be to this area. They felt that tourism dollars were the best dollars you could get. They did not want to become a bedroom community for Vancouver and Portland. They went to a lot of work, went to a lot of trouble and secured a grant to build a museum-cultural center on a land parcel adjacent to the river, maybe with a restaurantC just an all utility-type building that would attract tourists. They tried everything they could to interest the Port and both cities to listen to them and participate in the project, but no one would listen to them. It was a cry in the wilderness. The time those ladies spent on that project was outstanding. Now, of course, there has been a complete turnaround and everyone is after tourist dollars.
KT: There is tourism in Camas you mean?
JM: Well, trying. Everybody’s trying to get all of the tourist dollars; you know, get something that will entice people to stop.
KT: Like what?
JM: Well, for one thing, a museum. They have a museum in Washougal now, but I think the thing that has brought most tourist dollars to the area is the Washougal Pendleton Woolen Mill. It is known all over the world. When we were in Europe, there were two ladies on our tour who had been to the Pendleton Woolen Mills.
KT: What about Bonneville Dam? Has that played any role in Camas?
JM: Well, I’m sure it has, indirectly. Electrical rates have been historically lower. I think that is the Bonneville Dam’s major contribution. Bonneville and the other dams have played an important role in eliminating flooding in the area. We used to have high water during the rainy season. At the time of the Vanport flood, the water was all the way up to the railroad tracks. We would walk over to the tracks and watch as the water from the Columbia River rose or fell, and for several weeks the water was right up to the tracks.
KT: How much, for the purpose of illustrating that for the tape, how much distance would you say it was from the river to the railroad than normal banks?
JM: Oh, maybe a quarter of a mile, but I’m not good at distances, but around a quarter of a mile.
KT: So flooding was an issue?
JM: Yes, it used to be years ago. Then, of course, the Vanport flood was an unusual situation. Since then, there are three new dams on the Columbia, I believe, and we have had minimal flooding. The Washougal River floods during rainy weather and some of the basements of houses along the river are under water.
KT: Does that affect anybody?
JM: Not reallyC oh, it does, too. The houses along the river.
KT: On the north side?
JM: On the other side. Some houses were built too close to the river below the flood plain, and two years agoC I have pictures of thatC the water came into the basements.
People living along the Columbia River have had some scary times, too, when there is high water. I noticed when I had occasion to take a trip up the river that residents along the river had filled in along the banks with huge boulders to stop erosion along the shore. It’s just something they are going to have to live with [laughs]. I wouldn’t want to live on the river for that reason.
KT: Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?
JM: Yes, I do in a way. I don’t think I am a fanatic. I realize that the two have to co-existC growth and environment. There is just no other way. I do hate to see open spaces disappear, because once they are gone, you don’t get them back. All you have to do is visit L.A. [laughs] to see what happens when open spaces become developments. I hate the thought of that happening here, because it is still so nice. I had one developer tell me, “Oh, you’re gonna like to look at these lovely houses. They are going to be beautiful homes.” That’s well and good, but I would still rather look at a forest than new homes. That’s my opinion, so I guess I am an environmentalist. I just hate to see open spaces disappear.
KT: What has been your biggest success as an activist over the years?
JM: I think our biggest success has been protecting the conservancy zone at the lake.
KT: Should we talk about this now?
JM: Well, we can. I can give you a few things about that, but I can’t go into detail.
KT: I can read these later, actually.
JM: Yes, and that’s what I will give you. These items are public knowledge; they have been in the newspaper. This is a history of Clark County’s Citizens in Action. It doesn’t seem on the surface like a big success, I guess, viewed from the public point of view, but from our point of view, we do feel it is a success. It was worth the battle.
KT: Well, let me tryC I’ve talked to you on the phone before; now let meC when did this start?
JM: In 1988.
KT: And that’s when the development was approved?
JM: Um hum, when they were first discussing it. I guess it had gone to the planning commission.
KT: What do they call that development?
JM: Lacamas Shores.
KT: But the concern was there was supposed to be a zone and trying to protect that.
JM: Let’s see, the conservancy zone is the area within a hundred feet along the shore; that’s what it amounted to.
KT: Okay. So it hasn’t been resolved yet, has it?
JM: Yes, it is. This [ruffles papers]C this is what we are allowed to say.
KT: So can you say what you achieved?
JM: They didn’t achieve all they expected, but we did achieve part of what we expected, and that is about the best you can say.
KT: Which was toC
JM: A line here, let’s seeC we think we gave too much and they think we gave too little, but, that is the nature of compromise and that’s what it’s all about.
KT: What’s the end, physical end result up at the lake that you achieved? What is up there? Is there something up there? Is there a conservancy zone?
JM: Oh, absolutely. There is a trail along the lake that is part of the Camas open spaces and trail network.
KT: The portion that’s connected to Lacamas Shores?
JM: Right. Well, it’s below Lacamas Shores. It’s right along the edge of the lake.
KT: So, what we are talking about here is the protection of this trail.
JM: Well, not only the trail, but the conservancy zone, which is the hillside, the steep slope.
KT: How many feet is it?
JM: A hundred feet.
KT: So, what motivates you to do it, to take on all this stuff?
JM: Well, I feel like we owe it to the young people who are coming up. I don’t think they have much time to do it. It’s like the water issue. When I went door to door to talk to people, they would have liked to become involved. Like I say, when both are working and get home, they are tired and do not want to go to meetings. I think it’s the same with the UCAN meetings, although we do have a number of young people.
KT: This is through their own neighborhood association?
JM: Yes, there are neighborhood associations all over town. Then there is UCAN, which is United Camas Association of Neighborhoods. Through UCAN, there are several town-wide events. Clean-up day, neighborhood night out, garbage clean up, and a food drive for the community food bank.
KT: Is that something like a food bank?
JM: Yes, it is for the food bank and many young people are involved in that. We gather all of the food together over at the Tidland parking lot. There are pickup loads of food coming in all day.
KT: You said something on the phone about why you monitor city government.
JM: Well, I think the council tends to become a closed group. It think theyC whether they do or they don’tC it appears to me that they get to where they feel, “Well, maybe we know what is really best for the community, because we have all of the ‘inside’ information, so they should leave it to us, they elected us, they should leave it to us.” I think that it is really easy for them to fall into that trap. I don’t go to every meeting, but one of us usually goes and then if their ears go up, we all get involved. We don’t always get what we want, but we make ourselves known.
KT: How do they respond to you guys?
JM: Very wellC our neighborhood does.
KT: I mean the government.
JM: The government? Well, there again, sometimes we get what we want and sometimes we don’t. You just have to take what you get [laughs]. The water issue is a classic example. I just feel you’ve gotta try, because if you don’t, you are justC you become apathetic and that is the worst thing that can happen. Even if you lose every time you go to a council meeting, you have to keep going back. I admire that more than I do people who just say, “We can’t do anything.” If you don’t try, you cannot do anything.
KT: Has there been anything you have worked on that I guess you would call a failure? Not personally, butC
JM: As a group?
KT: Yes.
JM: Um, I think probably getting theC we call it the Anderson property. I think that has been my biggest disappointment, because we worked very hard. Fist of all, to get the signatures for a referendum.
KT: Do you remember the number of the referendum?
JM: No, I don’t anymore; it’s beenC
KT: When was it passed?
JM: [laughs] I don’t even remember that anymore. It’s been about eight year or more, I guess. Anyway, we went door to door, had to get enough signatures. We worked endlessly, but we were successful to get a vote on the bond issue that would allow money to purchase the Anderson property, as well as other open space. It passed overwhelmingly, but the city did not buy the property.
KT: I think it was before the tape that you told me this. The city, instead of usingC what did the city do with the money?
JM: They feltC in their wisdomC that it was more beneficial to have a number of parks in different areas within the city, and since we had Goot Park in this neighborhood, it was not necessary to have another so close. We were really unhappy, because we had worked so hard to pass that bond issue.
KT: So, on the map here, that’s this area here near Goot Park, west of Yale Street on the Washougal River.
JM: [discussing the map]
KT: You live on Yale Street?
JM: Right. So I live right next to Goot Park, the very last house. In fact, when I look out of my window,
I don’t even see houses, except those across the river. Where I live, the houses are to the side of me and behind me. I live here [using the map] and all of these houses are around here, so I don’t see them from the front of my house at all, but I have really nice neighbors. I like the neighborhood.
KT: What is it that you would like to see happen to that land?
JM: Oh, I’d like to see it remain as it is, with maybe the city using it as a natural park and mowing it once in awhile.
KT: Public access?
JM: Yes, public access, foot traffic. I would like to see some very stringentC some sort of protection where garbage is concerned. People just seem to drop garbage. They look you in the eye and throw it down. Two young men, about 22-23 years old, were walking on the property when I was and when they threw down garbage, I asked them why they didn’t take it with them. They looked me in the eye, picked up their garbage, moved over to the railroad tracks and set the garbage down in the middle of the tracks. You know this just seems to be the attitudeC someone will pick it up. Helen GerdeC she is on the city councilC lives down here [pointing on map].
KT: Which is where?
JM: Up the street on Southeast Second.
KT: So, east of it?
JM: Yes, east of me. She lives here [indicating on map]. She picks up this end of the Goot Park and I pick up this end and all around here.
KT: So, you are really talking about Goot Park.
JM: This is Goot Park, yes.
KT: You guys pick up the area around Goot Park.
JM: Yes, we do, because we want to see our neighborhood clean. There is now another lady who is helping with the pick up. We do not pick up every day, but we do keep our neighborhood clean.
KT: Oh. Well, I’m gonna go ahead and turn off the tape. Thank you.
JM: Um hum, thank you for coming.
